Archbishop Zollitsch Says Protestants are "Church"

Dressed for Disobedience

Edit: Archbishop Zollitsch has already been challenged by the Papal Nuncio, but he's angling in the German anti-Catholic media for an agenda not unlike the one at work in Austria. His latest howler would confuse the utterly decadent and dying Protestant Communion in Germany, with the Catholic one, only because they think they're "Church". 

The President of the German Bishops' Conference has vomited yet another of his sacrilegious theses regarding the reception of Communion for divorced.  He denies that there is a divide in German Catholicism.

(kreuz.net, Freiburg) "Benedict XVI is not the hardliner he is often presented as being" [Ain't that the truth.]

Archbishop Robert Zollitsch said this in Freiburg for an interview with the German newspaper 'Die Welt'.

Understanding for the Satanic Sleaze



Those who are against the Papal visit, the narcissistic human dreck of the Godless and the Gommorrhists have a "right to demonstrate" according to the Archbishop.He even hopes that the Satanic sleaze will respect "the person of the Pope".Among the personages will be found, for example, the fallen Catholic and homosexually disturbed David Berger, who denounced Benedict XVI in the past with his wild tirades.

Apostates Generally Deny the Division

The schismatic Archbishop denied any "evidence" for a schism in Germany.

There is "a Catholic bandwidth on many questions in positions that are at odds."

Yes, but that's apparently not a question of schism.The Archbishop only sees "various perspectives, and that's justifiable, and also self-evident".

Dogmatic Smoke Grenade

When Benedict XVI visits the Augustinian Cloister in Erfurt, where the Apostate Martin Luther lived, Msgr Zollitsch hopes for a a mandate with the Protestants, "to work out some of the things which still divide us".

As he has recalled already in the 'Augsburger Allgemeine" news, Pope John Paul II. encouraged Germany, regarding the reconsideration of alleged commonalities on the doctrine of Justification in 1980.  

What is Church?

The Archbishop is acknowledging protestants, in contradiction to the clarification of the CDF 'Dominus Jesus' of August 2000, as "Church".

The Evangelical Church understands itself as Church -- so says Msgr Zollitsch.He respects that and doesn't want to fight about concepts.

At the same time the question wasn't spared, "who is it that belongs to this 'Church' that understands themselves in this way".

The Catholic Creed explains the belief that there is only one Church. 

The Serious Solution is Turning Away from Divorce

The giving of Communion to the divorced is a "pastoral" consideration for the Archbishop.

He draws from that that there will be no concrete explanation from the Papal Visit.There is still "some analysis which has to take place. We are working on it."

Msgr Zollitsch wants to clarify the question "not shoving it to Saint-Nevers-Day, but we need the right amount of time, in order to seriously consider it."

Link kreuz.net...

Viennese Dogmatic Theologian: The Pastor's Initiative May Have Schismatic Consequences

Edit: Schism is still brewing in the German speaking countries, like this parish in Freiburg.  Cardinal Schönborn has already asked the participants in the "Pastor's Initiative" to reflect on whether they are Catholic or not and seems determined to carry on without the three hundred signators of the declaration.

Viennese Professor of Dogmatic Theology: This could "have schismatic consequences: in the worst case it could lead to a sectarian counter-church."  A Bishop can't be indifferent to this, "he must intervene immediately."

Vienna (kath.net) In some points in the Pastor's Initiative there is "room for discussion", perhaps in the question of those separated and divorced to permit them to receive Communion, or in the assessment of homosexual partnerships, which are of long duration.  This is what Jan-Heiner Tück, Vienna Dogmatic Theology Professor, and author of the "International Catholic Journal Communio",  said in an interview with the "Standard".

The "dissatisfaction with the lack of reforms" is "great in certain parts of the clergy",  explains the pressure, says the professor, which demands priestly ordination for women and lay ministers, he goes on further to explain.  But "a public outcry for disobedience is a provocative act", explained Tück, " which stands in direct contradiction to the promises, that were signed by a priest when he became ordained.  Otherwise the Initiative has a few points against proposals of Church regulations, he named some such as the "Call to Disobedience" demanding the arbitrary allowance of remarried, divorced, non-Catholics and lapsed to receive the Eucharist, according to the "Standard".

A Danger for the Church in reference to the Pastor's Intiative lies in that "which the criticism goes so far, as not merely proposing , rather also at the same time -- without the agreement of the Bishop -- will be applied".  This may "have schismatic consequences: it will lead in the worst case to form a sectarian counter-church."  A Bishop can not be indifferent to this, "he must intervene immediately."  In any case it would be more sensible, says the Professor, from this point forward to "have discussions behind the scenes".

As a solution Tück proposes that both sides come around "and make no denunciations".  What is clear is that: "Should all of the proposals" of the Pastor's Initiative "be adopted with a single blow, then the Church would have a different face than anything that has been seen for centuries."

The so-called "Pastor's Initiative" is an Internet campaign which has about 300 members and in future insists that there is no allowance for a "Roman intervention":  homemade liturgies of the word on Sunday like observing "priestless Eucharistic celebrations" and to rely on "guest lecturers",  "to discuss proposals for Church reform" in every Liturgy while ignoring the rule against lay preachers, and to openly utilize lay preachers and married or female priests at every opportunity and similar such things.

The Viennese Archbishop Christoph Cardinal Schönborn had already been cited  at kath.net in an exhaustive discussion, where he "can not tolerate such a call to disobedience".

Link to original..kath.net...

Joliet Pastor Praises Islam and Demeans the Mass of All Ages

Joliet's Finest

Edit: Today is the feast of St. John Vianney, patron of Priests, feared of the Devil.  It is a terrible mockery that on this feast, we're presented with someone who is an anti-Cure, and were it not for his approved status, we'd think he was an imposter.  He thinks no differently, actually, than the rebellious priests on the Viennese Cardinal's  watch who say a lot of the same things he does.

The following is a parish bulletin file from the Parish of Divine Savior in Downers Grove, Illinois, we received from "Concerned Catholic". He says that the pastor, Father William Conway, is downplaying the Immemorial Mass of All Ages. In another bulletin this priest even praises Allah and Islam.

You can also contact the Diocese about this individual:

Diocese of Joliet
Bishop R. Daniel Conlon
Bishop of Joliet
Office of the Bishops
425 Summit St.
Joliet, IL 60435-7193

phone: 815-722-6606
fax: 815-722-6632

Father, despite his spiritual and liturgical eccentricities, does make a good point, though, as the designation of "extraordinary" seems to make the Mass of all Ages into a preferential luxury.

We also noticed that his reading list leaves something to be desired. Can anyone who holds Karl Rahner SJ as an authority on Liturgy really expect anyone to believe they're Catholic? In any wise, what would happen to Father Bill if the norms of the Vatican Council II as he understands them were suddenly rejected and the Immemorial Mass of all Ages were to be recognized as the norm, as Cardinal Ranjith maintains? We suspect he'd take his pension and become an non-denominational pastor somewhere.

Moreover, Vatican II is a lot like Wittgenstein's famous Duck Rabbit. It can mean just about anything you want it to mean, unless you want it to mean something Catholic according to these Old Liberals who throw their poisoned darts. We've taken some effort to parse the comments.

It Doesn't Matter As Long As You're Not Catholic

Take a look at the parish council. Most of these people will be gone  in twenty years, God willing.

It is worth one’s time to consider what some of the Church’s leading theologians at the Second Vatican Council thought and wrote concerning the Eucharist and liturgy. In recent years one hears some speaking of the role of the priest in the liturgy as acting in persona Christi (in the person of Christ). My fear with such language is that it may have the effect of clericalizing [ Ah, this familiar old complaint. Destroy the priesthood and you destroy the Church] the celebration of the Eucharist, making the assembly once again a passive observer. At. Augustine reflecting on the meaning of ecclesia as the unity of the Body of Christ.

The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy (Sacrosanctum, Concilium) clearly underscores this understanding when it states the when we are gather at the Eucharist Table, it is in that moment that we are truly Church (ecclesia). Furthermore, in the gathering through the Holy Spirit we act with Christ, the High Priest, in offering the sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving to the Father. On this idea of the sacerdocio of the assembly in the Eucharist Yves Congar, O. P. cites the words of St. Peter Damian – words that at first glance appear somewhat contemporary: “the sacrifice of praise is offered by all the faithful, not only by men but also by women, even though it might appear to be offered in a special way by the priest alone (p. 26)”. These words were written a thousand years ago! Would that those who wish to restrict or limit the presence and active participation of women in the liturgy take heed of the words of St. Peter Damian.

While I respect the decision of the Holy Father to permit the extraordinary rite of the Tridentine Mass (please note “extraordinary”),[It never stopped you from using Eucharistic "Ministers", no doubt] my criticism of this form is that by the very manner of its celebration it renders the role of the laity to being little more than onlooker.  [Assuming the passivity of those present at the Immemorial Mass is a serious slur] In fact, it was precisely because of this that the Council Fathers in Sacrosanctum Concilium mandated the reform of the Latin Rite of the Catholic Mass: “In the restoratio and promotion of the sacred liturgy, this full and active participation by all the people is the aim to
be considered before all else (#14)”. [Active participation doesn't mean that you have a hoard of EXTRAORDINARY ministers, either]

Phrases, such as “in persona Christi”, “ad orientem”, I believe run contrary not only to the spirit of Vatican II but to the very tradition of the Church. [If you'd bothered to read Cardinal Ratzinger's, "Spirit of the Liturgy", you'd know that it actually is] reclined at table with them.

It is worth noting the language of the Eucharistic prayers of the Church concerning the role of the Holy Spirit in the Eucharist. The Holy Spirit is not only the one who sanctifies and makes holy, but also makes us the “communio sanctorum” one in Christ: “may all of us who share in the body and blood of Christ be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit (Euch. Prayer II).[This Prayer was made up out of whole cloth]

Be it Yves Congar, Odo Casals, Virgil Michels [SIC. Father Virgil Michel OSB, belongs on this list, but you should spell his name right.], Karl Rahner, Hans Kung, Schillebecxks, Joseph Ratzinger, or other theologians, I am grateful for their insights that have deepened my appreciation and wonderment for the Eucharist as the prayer of the People of God.

- Fr. Bill Conway